| Posted By logic on 2/10/04 @ 11:26:10 AM |
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I think 21 years of age is perfect. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of 18 year olds, hell 14 year olds, that are mature enough to drink, know when to stop, know how to control themselves.. and there are also 22 year olds, and 34 year olds, who cannot hold there alcohol, know how to behave themselves, there stopping point, etc. etc.. As a good rule, and with our law enforcing it the best they can, I believe 21 is the best choice for the general public. |
| Posted By lincolnluxor on 2/10/04 @ 11:38:39 AM |
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'No, You should be a different age (post what you think.)' I think that 21 is fine, BUT military people should be able to drink at 18! If I'm old enuf to die for you guys why the hell am i not old enuf to but me a beer? also this goes for cig's too... here in alabama the law is 19 to buy cig's (i know i'm 19 and it don't affect me). that's bullshit! If I'm 18, I can buy cig's in TN, but not in bama?!?! that's just wrong! they can keep the 19 rule but ammend it if we have a valid military ID! |
| Posted By logic on 2/10/04 @ 11:48:53 AM |
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Im a big supporter for the military, but what I don't like is that clause. If im old enough to die for you, im old enough to buy beer. Sure, as long as you stay your happy ass in a room with no keeys, weapons, or any means of harming another. That clause has been exhausted. "If im old enough to die, I can buy beer.. but don't worry.. i 'promise' i wont guy drive my military edition humvee, use my military edition assault rifle or my militarily trained combat manuevers to kick ass, or kill people.. because i'm 18 so i can buy beer, because i can be in the army." I'm sorry lincoln, I know you personally, and as I said, some people can handle it, some people can't. Just because your 19 and you can drink a lot and handle yourself, doesnt mean that other people can. Out of everyone in the army, everyone that is 17-20, how many would you let drink 2 30packs, then hand them an assault rifle that's loaded, and close your eyes? I wouldn't trust many... 21 or not, thats just the thing. =-/ |
| Posted By lincolnluxor on 2/10/04 @ 12:19:33 PM |
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well if you read in the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice -- our laws) If we come to duty with ANY alcohol (0.001+) in our system, we can get charged for up to 17 OFFENSES (all are felonies)!!! 1 offense is enuf to get you kicked out, and anyone that's ever been charged with over 3 (from what I've heard) is garunteed to get the pink slip! You wouldn't have to worry about us getting in our military vehicles, using our guns, etc... and besides that we have to sign out all those things! Do you think the person in charge of the supply of them is going to let us check them out? NO! We have to sign them back in when we're done using it too! we can't just take it home for the night. No, not even the Cops are allowed to have a weapon after COB (Close of Buisness -- end of the duty day). Believe me, it's a LOT harder to get away with drinking in the military then it is in the civilian world! Plus, we have many many people around (the 17-20 y/o's) that would stop us from doing stupid shit (we all live together in the dorms, and we do stop each other from doing stupid shit). |
| Posted By Scoogen on 2/10/04 @ 1:07:08 PM |
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I really think its a maturity issue. There are truly some people out there who are in their 30's and are probably still not mature enough to drink... and yet again, there are probably some 15 year olds who are. The real problem is people who think they are... Because if you think you are, you probably arn't... As for me, my dad's offered me the occasional drink, but I never take it. My parents find that as a sign of maturity, and I believe that it may mean I am mature enough, but I'm not sure. You can bet I'll wait till I'm 21 'till I drink. As for all these 13, 14 and 15 year olds out there getting drunk off their asses... I almost say that let them get so drunk that they kill themselves. If they can't learn the lesson from what the truth really is... Then let them kill themselves. And as punishment for those who do it without killing themselves... Why not make the drinking age the person's choise, and the DRIVING age 21... That will change a whole lot of stuff around. As for the people that are my age that come to school saying, "hey man! We got drunk off our asses this weekend." Heh, that just makes me laugh... Think about it, they got drunk off their asses, imagine what they were doing.... And if they remember all that they were doing! hahah! Military personell drinking.... I'm sorry, but why can't you wait man? You're 19... 2 more years! you can't wait two more years? See the problem is that you have already been out drinking. And you want to do it again... Now you may be able to handle yourself and deal with the responcibilities of drinking... But not all 19 year olds in the military are. Trust me, during my deployment in Korea, I saw plenty of young inlistees who my 6th grade sister was acting more mature than. All in all, I think drinking should probably be the choise of a RESPONCIBLE adult figure above the child. Responcible in that someone who is not an alcoholic themselves. Most likely not the child's parents either... Maybe a prinicpal or employer for you case LL. |
| Posted By logic on 2/10/04 @ 1:15:10 PM |
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I do believe the military has many authoritive figures around to moderate drinking, along with all other bad habits I do realize you have to sign the vehicle out, sign it back in. I do realize that you think you are mature enough to drink.
-> Just because you think you could realize you don't need a gun, or vehicle, when your dunk, does not mean other people are. If you can't realize this, then you damn sure dont need to be drinking -> You're saying its ok to drink, because you have a ton of dorm buddies to stop stupid shit from happening? Reread this, this time pretend its a teenage camp. Uh-huh.. rely on fellow drunken friends to stop you from doing stupid shit.. while they do it themselves. Excellent. |
| Posted By tacoX on 2/10/04 @ 1:22:21 PM |
| 21 is a perfect age in my opinion. I think if you were to go younger there would be a much higher addiction rate. By having the age to be 21, it makes it hard for us to get alholol |
| Posted By lincolnluxor on 2/10/04 @ 1:25:24 PM |
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-> remember the military uses scare tactics on us... Major MAJOR reprocusions would come to anyone who did that. Besides who in their right mind would give a drunk person a gun.... friend or not? ->where does 'you could realize you don't need a gun, or vehicle, when your dunk' come into play? you confuse the hell out of me with your second billet. ->where does a teenage-camp come into play when I'm talking about the military? wtf? and my friends stop me from doing stupid shit all the time, so I repay the favor and stop them... In the military we are taught from day one to use 'the buddy system' (always have someone around to watch your ass) |
| Posted By logic on 2/10/04 @ 1:46:21 PM |
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Second billet. Teenagers, i consider anything with teen in the number.. nineteen included. Your a young adult, a man because you have the balls to be in the military, but you are still not an 'adult', i dont care what you or anyone says, thats the way I feel about it. You realize when you are DRUNK shit happens you don't remember. You drink a lot, you told me you have been drinking for a long long time, and as such you have built up an immunity to it. Recognize this, now. Even though you can tolerate it, even though you will stop your friend john and joe from doing stupid shit, doesnt mean that they will realize whats going on when they are drunk, and john may not stop joe from doing something stupid, because he's drunk as well.. and you and everyone else are not there. Problem. I agree, who in there right mind would give anyone, military or not, a gun/car/weapon when the person is intoxicated. but, guess what, this world is full of people, i mean fucking congested with them, that are not in there 'right mind'. I love America with all my heart and soul, but i'm also not arrogant enough to think that we don't have plenty of people in America, and the American military, who are fucked up in the head. I dont care how rigorous the selection process is, I don't give a shit how meticulous the testing procedures are, there ARE fucked up people in our military, people that will do stupid ass things when drunk. And its a matter of time before it happens, and theres not a damn thing you, or any 'buddy' can do to stop it, because there will always be an opportunity. Such is the way of alcohol. By changing the age to 25 won't do anything, all i'm saying is that you need to stop living in a dream world thinking that because you are in the military it doesnt matter, because big brother will protect you and everyone else. Shit doesnt work that way, never has never will. Buddy system is great, wonderful, effecient way of doing things. But the buddy system, the MP's, nobody will ever be everywhere at once.. period. No exceptions. |
| Posted By lincolnluxor on 2/10/04 @ 2:39:30 PM |
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dude you confuse me so much in your typing... I have to go back and read everything 4 and 5 times. but anyways... so if we are 'young adults', what would you include an 'adult' to be? ->someone who can pay the bills? - we do ->someone who can live on their own? - we do ->someone who can go to work and make a living? - we do ->someone who takes responsiblity in their actions? - we do ->etc... etc... (i can go on if you want) and dude... in your john and joe thing... you have no proof of it, but I can give you plenty of email addy's to where I can refer you to some of my friends who can tell you time in and time out where we (not just me and them, but even when they were stationed other places with other people) help each other out! ALL THE TIME we do it! A L L T H E T I M E ! ! ! and omg... you ramble on so much in that last para i don't know what the hell to think of it. |
| Posted By platnum on 2/10/04 @ 3:18:48 PM |
| I dont care, i got a fake id. |
| Posted By logic on 2/10/04 @ 3:23:38 PM |
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Lincoln, your reading what you want to hear and disregarding what you don't. I have told you, 2 or 3 times now, that I am acknowledging YOUR maturity and that of your friends. What you are not understanding, is that by sheer numbers, the odds are that SOMEBODY in the military will not have a buddy to help them out. You are in the military, how many do you have right now? not just at your station, but total enlistees, army, navy, air force, marines, everybody. Lets just say 1,000,000. Okay.. I'm willing to bet, that out of that 1 million, there will be atleast 1 person who will drink, do something stupid, and do it without anyone stopping him. If your stubborn, look at it like this.. The lottery.. very high odds you won't win.. but somebody will, eventually, somebody will win, it's just a matter of time. The military may have the absolute best precautions to prevent 'fuck-ups', but its only a matter of time before someone does just that, fuck-up. |
| Posted By Pharismo on 2/10/04 @ 3:28:53 PM |
| i dont care about age i dont like alcohol |
| Posted By logic on 2/10/04 @ 3:50:34 PM |
I don't drink either.. I'm just trying to get more activity  I dont' drink, smoke, sm0ke, dip, anything. |
| Posted By lincolnluxor on 2/10/04 @ 3:58:31 PM |
| ok.... so logic, your going to not allow us to drink because of 1 fucking dumbass? jeezus man, c'mon! |
| Posted By demo on 2/10/04 @ 3:59:08 PM |
| I think around 18 years old you should be able to drink. |
| Posted By logic on 2/10/04 @ 4:00:02 PM |
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No, of course not lincoln.. sorry if i gave that implication. Im not saying drinking, on a whole, should be allowed/disallowed by anyone. What I am saying, is that I just want people to realize, that no matter what precautions you take, what safeguards you install.. there will always be 1 person out there who's sole purpose in life is to prove that he can fuck it up anyway. Know what I mean? |
| Posted By lincolnluxor on 2/10/04 @ 4:03:32 PM |
o jeez... you were giving a COMPLETELY different implemintation of it a second ago 
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| Posted By logic on 2/10/04 @ 4:07:56 PM | ||||||||
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implimintation? I think its implementation, and I said implication anyway. How was I saying anything different?
I think i'v said in almost every post, to some extent, that some people cannot handle it, while others can.. basically, while a bunch of people can handle themselves, theres always someone who can't. |
| Posted By lincolnluxor on 2/10/04 @ 4:11:10 PM |
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my bad... i was off by one letter (never claimed to be an spelling major, and if you read up on my old posts they will tell you that I do NOT speak english... I speak southern!) and I never said that you SAID you were on the other side... i said that you were implying that you were! ...just drop it... |
| Posted By logic on 2/10/04 @ 4:13:57 PM | ||
This is the debate forum brotha.. what its here for. And this implied to me that you thought I was saying drinking should be disallowed because of 1 person. All I did was quote myself, saying that is not what I intended. |
| Posted By AutumnTwilight on 2/12/04 @ 7:51:08 AM |
| I think the age 30, I don't drink (I'm only 15) and I see no point in it, but I beleive people really start growing up at age 30, and by then everyone one would see that it isn't a wise descision and just screw it... My dad started drinking when he was a teen, became an alcholic, and my mom dumped him, he's never touched a beer *or any alchohol* sense, and says it's stupid to drink alchohol, when there's pop haha |
| Posted By Ching on 2/12/04 @ 1:14:34 PM |
| But even though, the government wouldn't change the drinking age to 25 or any higher than 21 since they will be loosing money. Unless they're making money only of cig's there will be ALOt more illegal intoxications and the government would loose the money to those who sell them illegaly. |
| Posted By Black-Syth on 2/12/04 @ 4:42:50 PM | ||
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I think the age of 18 is a perfect drinking age. Why? Look at the facts: *At 18, a person may drive. *At 18, a person can move the fuck out of their parents' house. *At 18, a person can watch any movie they want. *At 18, a person can go out to war and kill people, and die for their country. Shouldn't they be able to have a beer?
I don't think that it's the fact that you are in the military that you should be able to drink at 18, but the fact that you're able to be in the military. |
| Posted By surf on 2/12/04 @ 10:00:07 PM | ||
I think that it is a good law, but I like to drink.... a lot!! and I' am not 21, that means that i have to get my friend venny's uncle to get all of us beer, and so for that reason I don't like it but some people don't need to drink and I know a lot of people like that, I can hold my own I can act normal (inless I get shitfaced) but I' am normaly good about it. I kind of hate this law |
| Posted By Ching on 2/13/04 @ 5:09:12 PM |
| I so agree. I'd say that lowering it to 18 would make alot of people happier. I'm not sure how but there must be osme reaons. |
| Posted By TFC_GeneralKMK on 3/11/04 @ 7:45:14 PM |
| i think the drinking age if fine. 18's if they are drunk are more likely to do something stupid and get themselves killed then 21 or higher u just get more maturaty as you grow up. don't get me wrong drinking at 18 would be nice but it is just more likely that ppl would be stupid and drive or something get into a really bad drunk fight or something and ruin themselves. |
| Posted By liquidm on 3/12/04 @ 2:11:28 AM |
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*bump* voted for 18... thats very old actually. Oh well, the law here says 18, but the main problem is many underage drinkers out here and they tend to make silly mistakes like getting drunk and raping someone or worse still make someone drunk and fuck her/him ( believe me, girls do that too ), now the goverment are regulating the laws I couldnt get even a can of beer because they are sooo strict and I never got drunk before... unfair eh
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